Messages From digitrax

 


----------------------------

#33499 Jun 22, 2001

Hi group I'm running bus wire on my new layout and am using 14 gauge stranded. I have 2 100 foot long sections that will be bussed with the 14 gauge. Will I get an adverse voltage drop at the end of the bus with this combo?

thanks

grant

Southern Alberta Rail

Calgary Canada



----------------------------

#33501 Jun 22, 2001

Grant Eastman wrote: >Hi group I'm running bus wire on my new layout and am using 14 gauge

>stranded. I have 2 100 foot long sections that will be bussed with the 14

>gauge. Will I get an adverse voltage drop at the end of the bus with this

>combo?

>We need to know what you booster current rating is for worse case

conditions and where is the booster relative to each of these 2 100Ft

section. I will also assume HO scale.

Assuming it is 5Amps and a stranded wire resistance of

#14 7/22 = 0.0023 Ohms/Ft

You will drop for a single 100Ft section (2 x 100 out and back)

Vdrop = 200 Ft x 0.0023 Ohms/Ft x 5 amps = 2.3V

2.3V / 14.5V = 16% voltage drop.

That is a lot of voltage. It it recommend that #14 be used for 25' runs.

I would use larger gauge wire. #10 would be ideal but potentially

cumbersome. #12 would be a good compromise give cost and availability.

Another thought is to get a second booster and use one for each 100ft

run. Put one half way in each 100Ft run so it only 50' from booster to

end of the power district. Use #12 and all will be well.

Regardless of what you choose, the minimum wire gauge you need is one

that allows you to get a solid short at the farthest end of the power

district. Do the coin test. It the booster shuts down, your fine.

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries

Power Supply Applications Engineer

---------------

Model Railroad Club and NMRA DCC presentations are at:

---Links-Are-Forbidden--- Enthusiast (Love SAE equipment)

---Links-Are-Forbidden--- -







----------------------------

#33502 Jun 22, 2001

To: Grant

1) This is a long bus ("I have 2 100 foot long sections") to serve with

a14ga. wire, especially if you are using a single command station (DCS100,

DB150). I would suggest a 10ga or a 12ga bus or doubling the 14ga.

2) If you have already installed the 14ga bus remember to do the "coin

test" or use some other methodology to short the rails at the farthest

distance form the command station. The command station MUST be able to

detect the short and recycle rail power. If the command station DOES NOT

detect and recycle with a short then add a parallel 14ga bus.

Bob Young

P.O.Box 1401

Clinton, Ontario

Canada, N0M 1L0

Web Site: ---Links-Are-Forbidden--- ----- Original Message -----

From: "Grant Eastman" southernalbertarail@...>

To: "digitrax" digitrax@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: June 22, 2001 1:21 PM

Subject: [Digitrax] bus wire

> Hi group I'm running bus wire on my new layout and am using 14 gauge

stranded. I have 2 100 foot long sections that will be bussed with the 14

gauge. Will I get an adverse voltage drop at the end of the bus with this

combo?

>



----------------------------

#33505 Jun 23, 2001

Your voltage drop could exceed 2 volts at 5 amps. Why anguish over this

when you can run 10 gauge solid copper and save money over the 14 gauge

stranded? Unless you're going to continuously flex the wire, use solid.

Home Depot and others sell it dirt cheap in red and black and other

colors, too. Use large screw size terminal blocks for termination or

interconnects. If the 10 gauge is too bulky (as it will be for

connecting to components like the booster) size down to 16 or 18 gauge

for shorter interconnects from the big terminal blocks to those

components. Use smaller terminal blocks to group your 22 gauge track

feeders.

--- In digitrax@y..., "Grant Eastman" southernalbertarail@h...> wrote:

> Hi group I'm running bus wire on my new layout and am using 14 gauge stranded. I have 2 100 foot long sections that will be bussed with the 14 gauge. Will I get an adverse voltage drop at the end of the bus with this combo?

>

> thanks

> grant

> Southern Alberta Rail

> Calgary Canada

>

>

>







----------------------------

#33506 Jun 23, 2001

Use 10 gauge solid copper wire or your voltage drops with 14 gauge

could exceed 2-3 volts with those runs. Home Depot and others sell it

dirt cheap and you can get it in red, black and other colors. Only if

you are going to continuously flex the wire will you need to use

stranded. Use large screw terminal blocks for 10 gauge buss wire

interconnections. Size down to 16 or 18 gauge for short connections

from those terminal blocks to the booster and other components. Use

smaller screw terminal blocks interconnected to the large ones for

grouping your 22 gauge track feeders.

--- In digitrax@y..., "Grant Eastman" southernalbertarail@h...> wrote:

> Hi group I'm running bus wire on my new layout and am using 14 gauge stranded. I have 2 100 foot long sections that will be bussed with the 14 gauge. Will I get an adverse voltage drop at the end of the bus with this combo?

>

> thanks

> grant

> Southern Alberta Rail

> Calgary Canada

>

>

>



----------------------------

#33509 Jun 23, 2001

Why 10 guage solid? 10 guage stranded has a slightly less voltage drop than

solid and is easier to soldier to and use connecters with.



----------------------------

#33510 Jun 23, 2001

--- In digitrax@y..., Bowlingtraindude@a... wrote: > Why 10 guage solid? 10 guage stranded has a slightly less voltage drop than

> solid and is easier to soldier to and use connecters with.

Either is fine, although 10 gauge is a bear to work with whether

stranded or solid. Solid is less expensive and easier to work with at

terminal blocks. No stray strands to wrestle with. As for soldering, I

think they are equally easy to work with because of the copper content.

But I don't solder the buss wires - I use screw terminal blocks for

ease of connection, flexibility, reliability and repairability. I think

you may be confused as to voltage drop differences between solid and

stranded wire of the same gauge and material. Skin friction theory may

become a hypothetical concern when frequencies range into the rf

spectrum but DCC is no where near that area, so both are considered

equally efficient.







----------------------------

#33518 Jun 23, 2001

Hi. I just want to offer a suggestion here. A guy asks whether a

certain gauge and type wire is sufficient for his layout. We all end up

discussing electronic theory, rf conductance, inductance, emissions,

impedance, etc. All he asked is whether 16 gauge stranded is big

enough! This type of complex theoretical discussion without a request

for the theory by the question asker is what kept me from buying a

Digitrax system for so long. My suggestion (to myself included) is to

try to stop demonstrating to everyone else just how much we know about

things when we answer a question. Just look below and tell me if I'm

out of line here . . . .

--- In digitrax@y..., Sieber sieber@w...> wrote:

> DC-Resistance R is only a piece of that cake! The DCC track voltage is a

> square wave shaped signal and thus has a wide spectrum including harmonics

> with high frequencies (going well up into RF! - Tiny portions become again

> considerable when of a high power signal - or, "majorasburn@yahoo", why are

> AM disturbances apparent if the carrier-RF or mixer-IF frequencies are not

> included in DCC at all?).

>

> The impedance Z of the wiring matters for DCC and that could be quite

> different to the R with DC. Capacitance C and inductance L should not be

> ignored only because calculation is practically impossible since C and L

> are mainly determined by _HOW_ the complete wiring and the wire itself are

> built up. The thing called "skin effect" may be a minor issue besides all

> the capacitances, but the attenuation of high frequency portion results in

> trapezoid DCC signals and increased number of decoding errors (no or wrong

> reaction on throttle commands since DCC works in "fire and forget" mode and

> does neither verify correct reception nor send such feedback).







----------------------------

#33522 Jun 23, 2001

Hi Grant

Have a look on this website:

---Links-Are-Forbidden--- Allen Gartners homepage, full of info about how to make your

layout DCC-friendly, including wiring of switches!

Kind regards

Vincent Wesstein

Have FUN with DCC.



----------------------------

#33529 Jun 24, 2001

I appreciate your response but I don't want to use more boosters. I'm

already using four and don't want to have to double up. I have 2 separate

busses that will be 100 feet each and 1 that will be 40 feet. The other

booster will control my reverse loop staging yards. I think I will try to

use 10 gauge stranded wire for the long busses.

talk soon

grant ----- Original Message -----

From: "Sieber" sieber@...>

To: digitrax@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 11:51 AM

Subject: AW: [Digitrax] Re: bus wire

DC-Resistance R is only a piece of that cake! The DCC track voltage is a

square wave shaped signal and thus has a wide spectrum including harmonics

with high frequencies (going well up into RF! - Tiny portions become again

considerable when of a high power signal - or, "majorasburn@yahoo", why are

AM disturbances apparent if the carrier-RF or mixer-IF frequencies are not

included in DCC at all?).

The impedance Z of the wiring matters for DCC and that could be quite

different to the R with DC. Capacitance C and inductance L should not be

ignored only because calculation is practically impossible since C and L

are mainly determined by _HOW_ the complete wiring and the wire itself are

built up. The thing called "skin effect" may be a minor issue besides all

the capacitances, but the attenuation of high frequency portion results in

trapezoid DCC signals and increased number of decoding errors (no or wrong

reaction on throttle commands since DCC works in "fire and forget" mode and

does neither verify correct reception nor send such feedback).

Wiring for DCC is wiring for digital signals with high power - and a little

different to DC or mains voltages. If you want lower impedances, you should

stay away of solid copper, better use only stranded wire and twist wires of

related signal pairs (e.g. Rail A/B). - Running two solid copper wires in

parallel is about the worst you can do for signals like DCC, although it

looks nice.

To Grant:

For the given length I would stay with the stranded AWG14 (or if not

already purchased use stranded AWG12), but in any case split rail power in

two sections and use a second booster (each located in the middle of its

section) - maybe a third booster for switches and accessories on that size

of layout. - If you don't load the rails to the limit (by running several

locos simultaneously, lighted or long trains), drawing the full 5 Amps, you

can operate all as one section until you get another booster. Thicker wires

than AWG12 are difficult for handling and connecting - also, each connector

in the bus wiring is a critical point (connection resistance is quickly

higher than that of the whole cable; connector rating must at least be your

5 Amps). Screw terminals are cheaper and have lower "contact" resistance.

Daniel Sieber

Zurich, Switzerland

> -----Urspr..ngliche Nachricht-----

> Von: majorasburn@... [SMTP:majorasburn@...]

> Gesendet am: Samstag, 23. Juni 2001 00:46

> An: digitrax@yahoogroups.com

> Betreff: [Digitrax] Re: bus wire

>

> Your voltage drop could exceed 2 volts at 5 amps. Why anguish over this

> when you can run 10 gauge solid copper and save money over the 14 gauge

> stranded? Unless you're going to continuously flex the wire, use solid.

> Home Depot and others sell it dirt cheap in red and black and other

> colors, too. Use large screw size terminal blocks for termination or

> interconnects. If the 10 gauge is too bulky (as it will be for

> connecting to components like the booster) size down to 16 or 18 gauge

> for shorter interconnects from the big terminal blocks to those

> components. Use smaller terminal blocks to group your 22 gauge track

> feeders.

>

To Unsubscribe From This List: mailto:digitrax-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to ---Links-Are-Forbidden--- /







----------------------------

#33532 Jun 24, 2001

I for one agree with you. The KISS principle should also apply to the

answers to our questions. Others will argue, if the theory and princples

behind the answer to the question are not explained we will not remember the

answer to the question over time.

I am not here for a course in Electronics 101 or trying to get a EE degree,

just get simple yes or no answers.

I realize that some answers will be long winded due to the topic such as

programming etc.

I have my asbestos suit so fire away as I know several folks on this list

will! :>)

Phil Euper in South Carolina ----- Original Message -----

From: majorasburn@...>

To: digitrax@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 1:55 PM

Subject: [Digitrax] Re: bus wire

> Hi. I just want to offer a suggestion here. A guy asks whether a

> certain gauge and type wire is sufficient for his layout. We all end up

> discussing electronic theory, rf conductance, inductance, emissions,

> impedance, etc. All he asked is whether 16 gauge stranded is big

> enough! This type of complex theoretical discussion without a request

> for the theory by the question asker is what kept me from buying a

> Digitrax system for so long. My suggestion (to myself included) is to

> try to stop demonstrating to everyone else just how much we know about

> things when we answer a question. Just look below and tell me if I'm

> out of line here . . . .

>

>

> --- In digitrax@y..., Sieber sieber@w...> wrote:

> > DC-Resistance R is only a piece of that cake! The DCC track voltage is a

> > square wave shaped signal and thus has a wide spectrum including

harmonics

> > with high frequencies (going well up into RF! - Tiny portions become

again

> > considerable when of a high power signal - or, "majorasburn@yahoo", why

are

> > AM disturbances apparent if the carrier-RF or mixer-IF frequencies are

not

> > included in DCC at all?).

> >

> > The impedance Z of the wiring matters for DCC and that could be quite

> > different to the R with DC. Capacitance C and inductance L should not be

> > ignored only because calculation is practically impossible since C and L

> > are mainly determined by _HOW_ the complete wiring and the wire itself

are

> > built up. The thing called "skin effect" may be a minor issue besides

all

> > the capacitances, but the attenuation of high frequency portion results

in

> > trapezoid DCC signals and increased number of decoding errors (no or

wrong

> > reaction on throttle commands since DCC works in "fire and forget" mode

and

> > does neither verify correct reception nor send such feedback).

>

>

>

> To Unsubscribe From This List: mailto:digitrax-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to ---Links-Are-Forbidden--- >







----------------------------

#33566 Jun 25, 2001

I agree with your comments completely! This one upsmanship occurs on the

majority of questions being asked. I know everyone is trying to be helpful,

but it can also be a pain to others who go over the same elaboration of

answers to a simple question. Delete - Delete - Delete!!! If the answer

has been given, why not let it lay.

Stan

majorasburn writes:

Subject: [Digitrax] Re: bus wire

> Hi. I just want to offer a suggestion here. A guy asks whether a

> certain gauge and type wire is sufficient for his layout. We all end up

> discussing electronic theory, rf conductance, inductance, emissions,

> impedance, etc. All he asked is whether 16 gauge stranded is big

> enough! This type of complex theoretical discussion without a request

> for the theory by the question asker is what kept me from buying a

> Digitrax system for so long. My suggestion (to myself included) is to

> try to stop demonstrating to everyone else just how much we know about

> things when we answer a question.



----------------------------

#33570 Jun 25, 2001

I think that the best answer to a post is the one that:

1. Provides an answer to the question

2. Explains the writer's rationale for his answer to help you gauge the

validity, or range of applicability, of the answer.

3. Contains related information of interest to the hundreds of readers

who didn't ask the question.

I think Don Cranos's posts, which many of us appreciate, do just that.

He rarely, if ever, just gives a "yes" or "no" answer. I found the

original post (Sieber) interesting, but a "yes" or "no" answer would

have been of no interest to me or anyone else but you. Also, I would

never trust a simple "yes" or "no" answer because very few technical

questions are so simple that an answer like that is adequate.

majorasburn@... suggested that we all "...try to stop

demonstrating to everyone else just how much we know about things when

we answer a question." Well I think that anyone who posts an answer here

is doing that, to some degree or another, and I certainly wouldn't want

to discourage anyone from sharing their knowledge. I do wonder how

majorasburn@... determined Sieber's motives for posting his

message.

--

___

___|_|0|___ Paul Welsh

| 000 0 | exdrgw@...

= oo---oo =

On Sun, 24 Jun 2001 06:07:54 -0400

"Phil Euper" peuper@...> wrote: >

> I for one agree with you. The KISS principle should also apply to the

> answers to our questions. Others will argue, if the theory and princples

> behind the answer to the question are not explained we will not remember the

> answer to the question over time.

> I am not here for a course in Electronics 101 or trying to get a EE degree,

> just get simple yes or no answers.

> I realize that some answers will be long winded due to the topic such as

> programming etc.

>

> I have my asbestos suit so fire away as I know several folks on this list

> will! :>)

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: majorasburn@...>

> To: digitrax@yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 1:55 PM

> Subject: [Digitrax] Re: bus wire

>

> > Hi. I just want to offer a suggestion here. A guy asks whether a

> > certain gauge and type wire is sufficient for his layout. We all end up

> > discussing electronic theory, rf conductance, inductance, emissions,

> > impedance, etc. All he asked is whether 16 gauge stranded is big

> > enough! This type of complex theoretical discussion without a request

> > for the theory by the question asker is what kept me from buying a

> > Digitrax system for so long. My suggestion (to myself included) is to

> > try to stop demonstrating to everyone else just how much we know about

> > things when we answer a question. Just look below and tell me if I'm

> > out of line here . . . .

> >

> >

> > --- In digitrax@y..., Sieber sieber@w...> wrote:

> > > DC-Resistance R is only a piece of that cake! The DCC track voltage is a

> > > square wave shaped signal and thus has a wide spectrum including

> harmonics

> > > with high frequencies (going well up into RF! - Tiny portions become

> again

> > > considerable when of a high power signal - or, "majorasburn@yahoo", why

> are

> > > AM disturbances apparent if the carrier-RF or mixer-IF frequencies are

> not

> > > included in DCC at all?).

> > >

> > > The impedance Z of the wiring matters for DCC and that could be quite

> > > different to the R with DC. Capacitance C and inductance L should not be

> > > ignored only because calculation is practically impossible since C and L

> > > are mainly determined by _HOW_ the complete wiring and the wire itself

> are

> > > built up. The thing called "skin effect" may be a minor issue besides

> all

> > > the capacitances, but the attenuation of high frequency portion results

> in

> > > trapezoid DCC signals and increased number of decoding errors (no or

> wrong

> > > reaction on throttle commands since DCC works in "fire and forget" mode

> and

> > > does neither verify correct reception nor send such feedback).







----------------------------

#33573 Jun 25, 2001

I don't know what point you are trying to make or whether you are

trying to provoke controversy where none exists but I did not try to

determine Sieber's motives.

His motives were, and are, irrelevant to my suggestion. He just

happened to provide a timely example of what I perceive as a possible

problem with some answers.

If you don't like my suggestion, you can ignore it. Why do you feel

compelled to inject innuendo into the discussion where none exists

except within your mind?

Major

--- In digitrax@y..., Paul Welsh exdrgw@b...> wrote:

> I do wonder how majorasburn@y... determined Sieber's motives for

> posting his message.



----------------------------

#136341 Dec 29, 2008

What recommendation do you recommend for a bus line for a 12 x 11 shelf

layout around the room. H.O. Scale and to run max 4 engines?

Nick Biangel

South Florida



----------------------------

#136342 Dec 29, 2008

To: Nick

#12 stranded wire preferably with a 'white' jacket. You can use Testor's

Model paint to color code the wire as you install same.

Bob Young

Clinton, Ontario

Canada's other West Coast

E'Mail: bob.young@...

Web: ---Links-Are-Forbidden--- ----- Original Message -----

From: "Nick Biangel" neb6@...>

To: Digitrax@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 3:23 PM

Subject: [Digitrax] bus wire

> What recommendation do you recommend for a bus line for a 12 x 11 shelf

> layout around the room. H.O. Scale and to run max 4 engines?

----------

----------

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG - ---Links-Are-Forbidden---

Version: 8.0.200 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1868 - Release Date: 12/29/2008 10:48 AM







----------------------------

#136345 Dec 29, 2008

Hi Nick,

I use ordinary 14-2 AWG house wiring (Romex). Strip off the outer plastic

and use the black and white wires separately. It..s probably overkill for a

layout your size, but the big box stores always have it and it..s pretty

inexpensive (considering that it..s copper, which ain..t generally real

cheap!). I use box connectors (tap connectors) to tap into the bus and

connect to the drops.

If you have (or find a good price on) 14-3, the bare copper ground wire will

come in handy for various applications as well.

Lots of other opinions will surface!

Brandon Bayer

---Links-Are-Forbidden--- Nick Biangel neb6@...>

Reply-To: Digitrax@yahoogroups.com>

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:23:50 -0000

To: Digitrax@yahoogroups.com>

Subject: [Digitrax] bus wire

What recommendation do you recommend for a bus line for a 12 x 11 shelf

layout around the room. H.O. Scale and to run max 4 engines?

Nick Biangel

South Florida

---------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



----------------------------

#136350 Dec 30, 2008

Hi Nick,

I went to my local Lowes store and they have various colors of wires that you can buy by the foot. I bought 10 guage stranded red and blue wire. It works great and is really easy to work with.

My layout is aprox 14 feet by 16 feet, with two main lines running. I have had 4 trains running at the same time and no problems. I have feeder wires coming off of my main bus about every 3 feet. My track is soldered at many of the joints but not all of them.

12 guage will be just fine for the size of your layout and would of worked for mine as well. Even 14 gauge would work for you.

Here is a photo of the wire I used under my layout.

---Links-Are-Forbidden--- like you are about to have fun.

Kevin

On 12/29/08 1:23 PM, "Nick Biangel" neb6@...> wrote:



What recommendation do you recommend for a bus line for a 12 x 11 shelf

layout around the room. H.O. Scale and to run max 4 engines?

Nick Biangel

South Florida







----------------------------

#149710 Feb 25, 2010

I am new to DCC and I am running my bus wire around the perimiter of the layout.I have a Zepher Starter kit and using only the basics.( No loconet)I am running a bus wire , feeder wires and doing some blocking with circuit breakers to isolate trobleshooting. My first question of the night is Can I loop my bus wire or do I leave an open end



----------------------------

#149712 Feb 25, 2010

Open end. --- In Digitrax@yahoogroups.com, "horsewizard55" horsewizard55@...> wrote:

>

> I am new to DCC and I am running my bus wire around the perimiter of the layout.I have a Zepher Starter kit and using only the basics.( No loconet)I am running a bus wire , feeder wires and doing some blocking with circuit breakers to isolate trobleshooting. My first question of the night is Can I loop my bus wire or do I leave an open end

>



----------------------------

#149720 Feb 25, 2010

What I would like to know is what gauge wire should be used for the bus line? --- In Digitrax@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Stuard" dstuard@...> wrote:

>

> Open end.

>

> --- In Digitrax@yahoogroups.com, "horsewizard55" horsewizard55@> wrote:

> >

> > I am new to DCC and I am running my bus wire around the perimiter of the layout.I have a Zepher Starter kit and using only the basics.( No loconet)I am running a bus wire , feeder wires and doing some blocking with circuit breakers to isolate trobleshooting. My first question of the night is Can I loop my bus wire or do I leave an open end

> >

>



----------------------------

#149729 Feb 25, 2010

Unless you have very long (over 50') runs, #14 should be sufficient,

though some would opt for #12. Many now use "suitcase" connectors to tap

the bus for the feeder drops from the rail. Note that best practice

drops a feeder from every piece of rail, bypassing rail joiners as

electrical connectors.

Roger Thomas

Gerry Read wrote: >

>

> What I would like to know is what gauge wire should be used for the

> bus line?

>

> --- In Digitrax@yahoogroups.com mailto:Digitrax@yahoogroups.com>,

> "Doug Stuard" dstuard@...> wrote:

> >

> > Open end.

> >

> > --- In Digitrax@yahoogroups.com mailto:Digitrax@yahoogroups.com>,

> "horsewizard55" horsewizard55@> wrote:

> > >

> > > I am new to DCC and I am running my bus wire around the perimiter

> of the layout.I have a Zepher Starter kit and using only the basics.(

> No loconet)I am running a bus wire , feeder wires and doing some

> blocking with circuit breakers to isolate trobleshooting. My first

> question of the night is Can I loop my bus wire or do I leave an open end

> > >

> >

>

>







----------------------------

#149734 Feb 25, 2010

I am using a 14 gauge wire --- In Digitrax@yahoogroups.com, "Gerry Read" gerryread2002@...> wrote:

>

> What I would like to know is what gauge wire should be used for the bus line?

>

> --- In Digitrax@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Stuard" dstuard@> wrote:

> >

> > Open end.

> >

> > --- In Digitrax@yahoogroups.com, "horsewizard55" horsewizard55@> wrote:

> > >

> > > I am new to DCC and I am running my bus wire around the perimiter of the layout.I have a Zepher Starter kit and using only the basics.( No loconet)I am running a bus wire , feeder wires and doing some blocking with circuit breakers to isolate trobleshooting. My first question of the night is Can I loop my bus wire or do I leave an open end

> > >

> >

>



----------------------------

#149739 Feb 25, 2010

N-Trak specifies 12 AWG which in our case we tap with suitcase jumpers to

add power drops. Typically we put drops near each end of the 4 or 6 foot

module. On a 6 foot module we avoid soldering one set of rail joiners near

the center of the module to allow for thermal expansion of the rail.



Phil Agur

Capitol City N-Trak - All DCC - Sacramento, CA

Mid Century N- California - SP, WP, SF, UP, TWS, and others.

---Links-Are-Forbidden--- ---Links-Are-Forbidden---

---Links-Are-Forbidden---

From: Digitrax@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Digitrax@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

Of Gerry Read

Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:26 AM

To: Digitrax@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [Digitrax] Re: Bus Wire



What I would like to know is what gauge wire should be used for the bus

line?

--- In Digitrax@yahoogroups.com mailto:Digitrax@yahoogroups.com> , "Doug

Stuard" dstuard@...> wrote: >

> Open end.

>

> --- In Digitrax@yahoogroups.com mailto:Digitrax@yahoogroups.com> ,"horsewizard55" horsewizard55@> wrote: > >

> > I am new to DCC and I am running my bus wire around the perimiter of thelayout.I have a Zepher Starter kit and using only the basics.( No loconet)I

am running a bus wire , feeder wires and doing some blocking with circuit

breakers to isolate trobleshooting. My first question of the night is Can I

loop my bus wire or do I leave an open end > >

>







----------------------------

#149757 Feb 25, 2010

Need more information.

Size of layout?

Length of bus runs from booster to DCC breakers if used?

Length from breakers to each power district?

Martin Myers

--- In Digitrax@yahoogroups.com, "Gerry Read" gerryread2002@...> wrote:

>

> What I would like to know is what gauge wire should be used for the bus line?

>

> --- In Digitrax@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Stuard" dstuard@> wrote:

> >

> > Open end.

> >

> > --- In Digitrax@yahoogroups.com, "horsewizard55" horsewizard55@> wrote:

> > >

> > > I am new to DCC and I am running my bus wire around the perimiter of the layout.I have a Zepher Starter kit and using only the basics.( No loconet)I am running a bus wire , feeder wires and doing some blocking with circuit breakers to isolate trobleshooting. My first question of the night is Can I loop my bus wire or do I leave an open end

> > >

> >

>



----------------------------

#149758 Feb 25, 2010

Phil,

Wouldn't you need two more sets of feeders on those 6 foot modules to space them every two feet or less?

Martin Myers

--- In Digitrax@yahoogroups.com, "Phil Agur" pjagur@...> wrote:

>

> N-Trak specifies 12 AWG which in our case we tap with suitcase jumpers to

> add power drops. Typically we put drops near each end of the 4 or 6 foot

> module. On a 6 foot module we avoid soldering one set of rail joiners near

> the center of the module to allow for thermal expansion of the rail.

>



----------------------------

#149762 Feb 25, 2010

Hi Martin,



The unique physical construction1 we (I) use puts the soonest point where

it's practical to tap for a feeder about 18 inches in from the end. In rough

terms, that puts the feeder in the middle of a 36" rail section, so no more

than 18" of rail to a power drop. Since very few modules are this simple

there is often more than one drop (tracks on both sides of a turnout for

example) from a tap. We started all solder rail joiners but found we could

buckle tracks here in the summer if there was no midpoint expansion joint on

a 6 foot module.



Phil Agur

Capitol City N-Trak - All DCC - Sacramento, CA

Mid Century N- California - SP, WP, SF, UP, TWS, and others.

---Links-Are-Forbidden--- ---Links-Are-Forbidden---

---Links-Are-Forbidden---



Notes: 1. Our N-Trak modules have a bulkheads 12" from each end to support

legs which fold up into the center 4ft section latching in place leaving a

clean bottom for racked transport. This is also true of our 12 foot corner

segments with 71.2" of red line rail on each but if you flip them there's a

definite 4 foot module frame in the middle. Newer module sets mate without

the need for connector tracks using cast in place sleeve bearing and dowel

pins for alingment. Staying with the theme of fast set-up we have a

standardized PP block configuration so it's only one plug to mate. This year

I hope to convert my 4 module 12 track deep yard set to self-aligning and

introduce a 5 module with an underpass below the yard.



From: Digitrax@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Digitrax@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

Of karpetkrafters

Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 1:43 PM

To: Digitrax@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [Digitrax] Re: Bus Wire



Phil,

Wouldn't you need two more sets of feeders on those 6 foot modules to space

them every two feet or less?

Martin Myers

--- In Digitrax@yahoogroups.com mailto:Digitrax@yahoogroups.com> , "Phil

Agur" pjagur@...> wrote: >

> N-Trak specifies 12 AWG which in our case we tap with suitcase jumpers to

> add power drops. Typically we put drops near each end of the 4 or 6 foot

> module. On a 6 foot module we avoid soldering one set of rail joiners near

> the center of the module to allow for thermal expansion of the rail.

>






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