Messages From digitrax

 


----------------------------

#44548 May 7, 2002

First, forgive me if I use the incorrect terms! I have a simple 5X9

layout (the Atlas Granite Gorge and Nortern) that is controlled by a

digitrax chief. I am thinking of getting into turnout control for the

yard.

It is a very simple yard (4 tracks and hence 3 switches) to route

trains in. I have read the DS54 manual online, and although much

seems complicated, it appears that it can do what I want (easily is

the key word!).

Basically, if I want to send a train to track 1 of the yard, I need

the three switches set a particular way. Same for the other 3 tracks.

This appears to be called "local route" in DS54 terms. Am I on the

right track here? I'd like to be able to control it from the trottle

as well as local push buttons. I guess I would need 4 routes?

As I go further, if I throw a switch controlled by one DS54, but need

to also throw a switch that is on a different DS54, can that be done

with local route? Or do I have to get into the cascading route?

Thanks!

Paul

(Connecticut)



----------------------------

#44558 May 8, 2002

First, forgive me if I use the incorrect terms! I have a simple 5X9

>layout (the Atlas Granite Gorge and Nortern) that is controlled by a

>digitrax chief. I am thinking of getting into turnout control for the

>yard.

Is that plan number 28 in the Atlas book? I like that one! >It is a very simple yard (4 tracks and hence 3 switches) to route

>trains in. I have read the DS54 manual online, and although much

>seems complicated, it appears that it can do what I want (easily is

>the key word!).

>

>Basically, if I want to send a train to track 1 of the yard, I need

>the three switches set a particular way. Same for the other 3 tracks.

>This appears to be called "local route" in DS54 terms. Am I on the

>right track here? I'd like to be able to control it from the trottle

>as well as local push buttons. I guess I would need 4 routes?

>

>As I go further, if I throw a switch controlled by one DS54, but need

>to also throw a switch that is on a different DS54, can that be done

>with local route? Or do I have to get into the cascading route?

Since you have a Chief, it might be better to use the routes in the

Chief to do this. That give you some more flexibility in setup, and

lets you assign convenient numbers to the tracks.

I can send some details on that if you're interested.

Bob

--

--------------

Bob Jacobsen (Bob_Jacobsen@..., 510-486-7355, fax 510-495-2957)







----------------------------

#44562 May 8, 2002

Paul,

Ok you can use DS54 Local Routing to control any section of a single DS54,

hence the name Local Routing. Anytime a DS54 has to route to another DS54,

you use the Cascade Messaging. But please note you can easily combine both,

so Local Routing is used on the DS54, then Cascade message to get to another

DS54, and use Local Routing on it if desired as well.

You also note you want to use Local Panel pushbuttons and throttles. We

should note the above will only apply to pushbuttons not throttle

control/routing. Or in other words, the DS54 Local Routing and Cascade

functions only from the Local Panel inputs. But it is possible to use relays

or interface an output back to the DS54 Local Panel inputs so a throttle can

control an DS54 output, which inturn can trigger Local Routing/Cascade if

need be.

A better solution, if you happen to have a Chief system [DCS100 Command

Station] you can use it's internal Route features. And use these along with

the DS54 Local Route and Cascade. This way the DCS100 routing can handle the

routes via throttles, and the DS54 Local can handle the routes via

pushbuttons. The same could be used via computer and software instead of or

with the DCS100 as well.

Remember Always Have Fun and Enjoy!,

Don Crano Akron, Oh NMRA #096211

Moderator Digitrax User Group

---Links-Are-Forbidden--- Model Railroading with DCC at:

---Links-Are-Forbidden--- Model Railroading with DCC Web Ring. ----- Original Message -----

From: "paul3515" plourd@...>

To: digitrax@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 3:26 PM

Subject: [Digitrax] DS54 to control a simple yard

> First, forgive me if I use the incorrect terms! I have a simple 5X9

> layout (the Atlas Granite Gorge and Nortern) that is controlled by a

> digitrax chief. I am thinking of getting into turnout control for the

> yard.







----------------------------

#44568 May 8, 2002

Don,

I think I got it, but just to confirm some stuff in the second paragraph.

Local routes can only be triggered by a push button, not the throttle? But

could the individual switches still be individually controlled from the

throttle and still have my kid push the local route button when he is

running the trains?

Frankly I like the idea of a push button, as on a small layout, you tend to

flip turnouts pretty often, and messing with the throttle can be a pain!

Thanks

Paul

At 01:04 AM 5/8/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>

>Paul,

>

>Ok you can use DS54 Local Routing to control any section of a single DS54,

>hence the name Local Routing. Anytime a DS54 has to route to another DS54,

>you use the Cascade Messaging. But please note you can easily combine both,

>so Local Routing is used on the DS54, then Cascade message to get to another

>DS54, and use Local Routing on it if desired as well.

>

>You also note you want to use Local Panel pushbuttons and throttles. We

>should note the above will only apply to pushbuttons not throttle

>control/routing. Or in other words, the DS54 Local Routing and Cascade

>functions only from the Local Panel inputs. But it is possible to use relays

>or interface an output back to the DS54 Local Panel inputs so a throttle can

>control an DS54 output, which inturn can trigger Local Routing/Cascade if

>need be.

>

>A better solution, if you happen to have a Chief system [DCS100 Command

>Station] you can use it's internal Route features. And use these along with

>the DS54 Local Route and Cascade. This way the DCS100 routing can handle the

>routes via throttles, and the DS54 Local can handle the routes via

>pushbuttons. The same could be used via computer and software instead of or

>with the DCS100 as well.

>

> Remember Always Have Fun and Enjoy!,

> Don Crano Akron, Oh NMRA #096211

> Moderator Digitrax User Group

> ---Links-Are-Forbidden--- Visit Model Railroading with DCC at:

> ---Links-Are-Forbidden--- Join Model Railroading with DCC Web Ring.

>

>----- Original Message -----

>From: "paul3515" plourd@...>

>To: digitrax@yahoogroups.com>

>Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 3:26 PM

>Subject: [Digitrax] DS54 to control a simple yard

>

>

> > First, forgive me if I use the incorrect terms! I have a simple 5X9

> > layout (the Atlas Granite Gorge and Nortern) that is controlled by a

> > digitrax chief. I am thinking of getting into turnout control for the

> > yard.

>

>

>

>

>To Unsubscribe From This List: mailto:digitrax-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>

>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to ---Links-Are-Forbidden--- /







----------------------------

#44569 May 8, 2002

Bob,

As Don also mentioned, I guess I should look at the routing in the Chief. I

just wanted to make sure I could still control the DS54 with a push button,

in case I mess up the programming in the chief, or have to do a reset.

While on the topic of that particular layout, do you know where I might

look on the net to find some hints on how to set up some operating

sessions? My layout is so small, and I have done some very limited

operations on a large layout, and just not sure how to start designing

operations.

I'll dig into the chief manual, but if you've got some tips, feel free to

send them along!

Thanks!

Paul

>Since you have a Chief, it might be better to use the routes in the

>Chief to do this. That give you some more flexibility in setup, and

>lets you assign convenient numbers to the tracks.

>

>I can send some details on that if you're interested.

>

>Bob

>--

>--------------

>Bob Jacobsen (Bob_Jacobsen@..., 510-486-7355, fax 510-495-2957)

>

>To Unsubscribe From This List: mailto:digitrax-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>

>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to ---Links-Are-Forbidden--- /



----------------------------

#44571 May 8, 2002

Bob

I am interested in the details too, as I have a similar need.

Can you post to the files section or send via email

THanks

Kent Williams

ownry@... > >with local route? Or do I have to get into the cascading route?

>

> Since you have a Chief, it might be better to use the routes in the

> Chief to do this. That give you some more flexibility in setup, and > lets you assign convenient numbers to the tracks.

>

> I can send some details on that if you're interested.

>

> Bob

> --

> --------------

> Bob Jacobsen (Bob_Jacobsen@l..., 510-486-7355, fax 510-495-2957)







----------------------------

#44572 May 8, 2002

Here's a collection of notes I'd sent earlier. If they're

useful/understandable, I can post a version to the files section.

Bob

Routes in the Chief respond to LocoNet messages addressing their

route number. That route number acts just like a turnout number:

You can dial it up on a throttle and select "close" to fire off the

route, or you can have a pushbutton send the message to close that

number, etc.

So what you need to do is configure a route in the Chief that does

what you want, and configure one or more pushbuttons to send the

message that fires that route.

The steps are (repeat for each track):

a) Connect a button to a DS54 channel. That's just wiring, and the

manual shows it pretty clearly. This DS54 need not be connected to a

switch machine in the yard! It's going to send the message to fire

the route when you push the button, and that message will make

everything happen.

b) Pick a route number N. This will be what you select on the

throttle to select this, so its effectively your "track number". It

should be _different_ from the address of any DS54 channel on your

layout. Since you aren't going to be addressing these DS54s directly

from a throttle, but rather through buttons and route numbers, you

can just give them some other unused number.

In my yard, the tracks are 31 through 39. The actual DS54's that

drive those tracks use addresses 61 and up.

c) Program the DS54 to send a "set N closed" when the input is sensed.

For example, to do this for the "A" switch input, you have to set CVs:

CV 34 to 0x01

CV 42 to 0x03

CV 59 to 0xB0

CV 60 to 31 (0x1F)

For B, C, D the CVs are different, as they are if you use the "Aux

input" instead.

Note that the value in CV34 is setting the DS54 to _not_ change it's

output when the button is pressed. We want the button to send the

message, and have the Chief change the turnout position, not have the

DS54 react by itself.

d) Configure the Chief. The method to do this depends a _lot_ on the

throttle you're using, but I think the manual is pretty clear. You

want to set a route that is fired when N is set to closed, and sets

the yard turnouts the way you want. In my case, for track 31, that's

"Set 61, 63, 64 closed, 62 and 65 thrown".

You'll probably also want to configure that DS54 for other things its

doing, for example driving switch motors. It certainly can do that,

but it doesn't have to. So you'll want to configure the DS54 to

tortoise outputs (0x20 in CV 3 through 6) if that's what you're

using. You may also want to configure the DS54 to report back the

output state by setting CVs 41 to 48 to either 0 or 0x81. (I don't

do this for routes, as in the yard, but I do do it for individual

turnouts that I might directly address from the throttle)

And there you are!

The hardest part is really loading the route info into the Chief

itself. I've got DT100's, not DT300 or DT400, so the process might

be different for other people. On mine, the process is a little

nasty because of the 6 second timeout; every time you stop to think,

it drops out of the route mode. I finally got my wife to read me the

settings while I hit buttons and turned knobs.

It went something like:

mode/disp to switch mode

func to route mode, see rt:01 on throttle (hit func a couple times more to

get this if it comes up as something else)

This is now entering the "1st" route. Hit to get to the next.

To enter switches in a route, twiddle the knobs, _then_ hit .

To enter next switch, twiddle and hit again.

To finish, or to go to the next route, hit _without_ twiddling

the knobs.

On the DT100, the key does two things while editing routes:

If a change has been made in a switch setting within a route,

save that new setting and move to the next switch in the same

route.

If no change has been made, mode to the next route.

Yes, I agree its confusing. There doesn't seem to be any easy way to

step through the switch values in a single route so you can write

them down.

--

--------------

Bob Jacobsen (Bob_Jacobsen@..., 510-486-7355, fax 510-495-2957)







----------------------------

#44573 May 8, 2002

Bob,

One thing to note (because I have been there) The

DS54 will not through more than one solinoid switch.

You will have to use tortoise or switchmasters to be

able to use route control. There is not enough

current for several (even 2) solonoids.

Skip in VA

--- Bob Jacobsen Bob_Jacobsen@...> wrote: > >First, forgive me if I use the incorrect terms! I

> have a simple 5X9

> >layout (the Atlas Granite Gorge and Nortern) that

> is controlled by a

> >digitrax chief. I am thinking of getting into

> turnout control for the

> >yard.

>

> Is that plan number 28 in the Atlas book? I like

> that one!

>

> >It is a very simple yard (4 tracks and hence 3

> switches) to route

> >trains in. I have read the DS54 manual online, and

> although much

> >seems complicated, it appears that it can do what I

> want (easily is

> >the key word!).

> >

> >Basically, if I want to send a train to track 1 of

> the yard, I need

> >the three switches set a particular way. Same for

> the other 3 tracks.

> >This appears to be called "local route" in DS54

> terms. Am I on the

> >right track here? I'd like to be able to control it

> from the trottle

> >as well as local push buttons. I guess I would need

> 4 routes?

> >

> >As I go further, if I throw a switch controlled by

> one DS54, but need

> >to also throw a switch that is on a different DS54,

> can that be done

> >with local route? Or do I have to get into the

> cascading route?

>

> Since you have a Chief, it might be better to use

> the routes in the

> Chief to do this. That give you some more

> flexibility in setup, and

> lets you assign convenient numbers to the tracks.

>

> I can send some details on that if you're

> interested.

>

> Bob

> --

> --------------

> Bob Jacobsen (Bob_Jacobsen@..., 510-486-7355,

> fax 510-495-2957)

>

> To Unsubscribe From This List:

> mailto:digitrax-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

> ---Links-Are-Forbidden---

>

>

---------------

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Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness

---Links-Are-Forbidden--- m







----------------------------

#44574 May 8, 2002

At 8:07 AM -0700 5/8/02, Skip Barber wrote: >Bob,

>

>One thing to note (because I have been there) The

>DS54 will not through more than one solinoid switch.

>You will have to use tortoise or switchmasters to be

>able to use route control. There is not enough

>current for several (even 2) solonoids.

>

Good point.

I've not used it myself, but I seem to recall there's an option

switch in the Cheif that spaces-out the route's turnout commands to

fix this. The idea is to have enough time between turnout change

commands so that the DS54 can recharge.

Has anybody tried it? If so, did it work?

Bob

--

--------------

Bob Jacobsen (Bob_Jacobsen@..., 510-486-7355, fax 510-495-2957)



----------------------------

#44591 May 8, 2002

Bob,

I have followed this question in the group and "think" that I know what you

are explaining, though I do not yet have my Chief or layout completed. I am

using PECO turnouts and switch machines. Do I read your explanation as

saying that this kind of "routing" will not work using the Peco machines?

Dave ----- Original Message -----

From: "Bob Jacobsen" Bob_Jacobsen@...>

To: digitrax@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 10:55 AM

Subject: Re: [Digitrax] DS54 to control a simple yard

> Here's a collection of notes I'd sent earlier. If they're

> useful/understandable, I can post a version to the files section.

>

> Bob

>

> Routes in the Chief respond to LocoNet messages addressing their

> route number. That route number acts just like a turnout number:

> You can dial it up on a throttle and select "close" to fire off the

> route, or you can have a pushbutton send the message to close that

> number, etc.

>

> So what you need to do is configure a route in the Chief that does

> what you want, and configure one or more pushbuttons to send the

> message that fires that route.

>

> The steps are (repeat for each track):

>

> a) Connect a button to a DS54 channel. That's just wiring, and the

> manual shows it pretty clearly. This DS54 need not be connected to a

> switch machine in the yard! It's going to send the message to fire

> the route when you push the button, and that message will make

> everything happen.

>

> b) Pick a route number N. This will be what you select on the

> throttle to select this, so its effectively your "track number". It

> should be _different_ from the address of any DS54 channel on your

> layout. Since you aren't going to be addressing these DS54s directly

> from a throttle, but rather through buttons and route numbers, you

> can just give them some other unused number.

>

> In my yard, the tracks are 31 through 39. The actual DS54's that

> drive those tracks use addresses 61 and up.

>

> c) Program the DS54 to send a "set N closed" when the input is sensed.

>

> For example, to do this for the "A" switch input, you have to set CVs:

>

> CV 34 to 0x01

> CV 42 to 0x03

> CV 59 to 0xB0

> CV 60 to 31 (0x1F)

>

> For B, C, D the CVs are different, as they are if you use the "Aux

> input" instead.

>

> Note that the value in CV34 is setting the DS54 to _not_ change it's

> output when the button is pressed. We want the button to send the

> message, and have the Chief change the turnout position, not have the

> DS54 react by itself.

>

> d) Configure the Chief. The method to do this depends a _lot_ on the

> throttle you're using, but I think the manual is pretty clear. You

> want to set a route that is fired when N is set to closed, and sets

> the yard turnouts the way you want. In my case, for track 31, that's

> "Set 61, 63, 64 closed, 62 and 65 thrown".

>

> You'll probably also want to configure that DS54 for other things its

> doing, for example driving switch motors. It certainly can do that,

> but it doesn't have to. So you'll want to configure the DS54 to

> tortoise outputs (0x20 in CV 3 through 6) if that's what you're

> using. You may also want to configure the DS54 to report back the

> output state by setting CVs 41 to 48 to either 0 or 0x81. (I don't

> do this for routes, as in the yard, but I do do it for individual

> turnouts that I might directly address from the throttle)

>

> And there you are!

>

> The hardest part is really loading the route info into the Chief

> itself. I've got DT100's, not DT300 or DT400, so the process might

> be different for other people. On mine, the process is a little

> nasty because of the 6 second timeout; every time you stop to think,

> it drops out of the route mode. I finally got my wife to read me the

> settings while I hit buttons and turned knobs.

>

> It went something like:

>

> mode/disp to switch mode

> func to route mode, see rt:01 on throttle (hit func a couple times more

to

> get this if it comes up as something else)

>

> This is now entering the "1st" route. Hit to get to the next.

>

> To enter switches in a route, twiddle the knobs, _then_ hit .

> To enter next switch, twiddle and hit again.

>

> To finish, or to go to the next route, hit _without_ twiddling

> the knobs.

>

> On the DT100, the key does two things while editing routes:

>

> If a change has been made in a switch setting within a route,

> save that new setting and move to the next switch in the same

> route.

>

> If no change has been made, mode to the next route.

>

> Yes, I agree its confusing. There doesn't seem to be any easy way to

> step through the switch values in a single route so you can write

> them down.

>

>

> --

> --------------

> Bob Jacobsen (Bob_Jacobsen@..., 510-486-7355, fax 510-495-2957)

>

> To Unsubscribe From This List: mailto:digitrax-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to ---Links-Are-Forbidden--- >







----------------------------

#44594 May 8, 2002

I have followed this question in the group and "think" that I know what you

>are explaining, though I do not yet have my Chief or layout completed. I am

>using PECO turnouts and switch machines. Do I read your explanation as

>saying that this kind of "routing" will not work using the Peco machines?

I honestly don't know. Perhaps somebody else here does.

The problem would be the amount of current that a DS54 can provide to

multiple solenoid switch machines in a short time.

Bob

--

--------------

Bob Jacobsen (Bob_Jacobsen@..., 510-486-7355, fax 510-495-2957)



----------------------------

#44596 May 8, 2002

Paul,

Yes that is just the way it would work with DS54 Local Routing and Cascade.

The local panel push buttons would set routes and cascades when pushed. With

no DCS100 internal routing, the throttles would only control the single

turnouts [sans route]

Remember Always Have Fun and Enjoy!,

Don Crano Akron, Oh NMRA #096211

Moderator Digitrax User Group

---Links-Are-Forbidden--- Model Railroading with DCC at:

---Links-Are-Forbidden--- Model Railroading with DCC Web Ring. ----- Original Message -----

From: "Paul Lourd" plourd@...>

To: digitrax@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 8:49 AM

Subject: Re: [Digitrax] DS54 to control a simple yard

> Don,

>

> I think I got it, but just to confirm some stuff in the second paragraph.

>

> Local routes can only be triggered by a push button, not the throttle? But

> could the individual switches still be individually controlled from the

> throttle and still have my kid push the local route button when he is

> running the trains?



----------------------------

#44608 May 8, 2002

Dave,

The problem is the amount of current the onboard DS54 CDU [Capacitor

Discharge Unit] as availible at a given point in time. This versing how much

current is required to engergize the coil of a give switch machine. Note:

this is not a problem with typical stall motor switch machines such as the

Tortoise, SwitchMaster, etc. Only with coil type switch motors, and the

amount of current required for these does vary greatly. There are some out

there the DS54 can not throw with out a lot of help. Trying to throw two or

more at the same time is almost impossible.

First if one uses the internal routing of the DCS100, you can meter out the

switch command in a route, this allows time for the DS54 onboard CDU to

recharge for the next motor. This is set by DCS100 OPSW #31. All that simply

happens is there will be a built in delay between each switch command as the

DCS100 sets up the route/s.

Now as far as the DS54 it's self and it's own Local Routing. We can help the

DS54 recharge faster by using the DS54 AUX input. And this is recommended by

Digitrax, especially any time coil switch motor types are used, routing or

not. A simply AC or DC applied to the AUX input of approx. 12-16V raised the

availible current, and recharges the CDU faster at the same time. Now as

long as with this setup you can throw a single coil machine, read no routes

yet. You should have no problem with newer PECO machines by the way. Some of

the older styles PECO motors still required more then the DS54 could

provide, and there are fixes for these if need be.

So now if we want to use routes and still run in to trouble trying to throw

to many coils in a route, we can also cut the pulse time down to the bare

min required to properly throw the turnout. But the best approach here is

distribute your route over multiple DS54's. As an example here, as noted

with Stall motors there is no problem and say we have a DS54 local route all

set up on a single DS54. To do the same with coil machines, alternate the

turnouts between 2 or more DS54's. Now as the route sets up via DS54 Local

route and cascade, first turnout is on DS54 1, next is on DS54 2, then back

to DS54 1, etc. Now each DS54 gets a recharge time between output requests.

Remember Always Have Fun and Enjoy!,

Don Crano Akron, Oh NMRA #096211

Moderator Digitrax User Group

---Links-Are-Forbidden--- Model Railroading with DCC at:

---Links-Are-Forbidden--- Model Railroading with DCC Web Ring. ----- Original Message -----

From: "David Engle" dvengle@...>

To: digitrax@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 3:24 PM

Subject: Re: [Digitrax] DS54 to control a simple yard

> Bob,

>

> I have followed this question in the group and "think" that I know what

you

> are explaining, though I do not yet have my Chief or layout completed. I

am

> using PECO turnouts and switch machines. Do I read your explanation as

> saying that this kind of "routing" will not work using the Peco machines?

>

> Dave







----------------------------

#44616 May 9, 2002

Thanks Don. I will let you know what happens when I set it up.

Dave ----- Original Message -----

From: "Don Crano" dcrano@...>

To: digitrax@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 6:47 PM

Subject: Re: [Digitrax] DS54 to control a simple yard

> Dave,

>

> The problem is the amount of current the onboard DS54 CDU [Capacitor

> Discharge Unit] as availible at a given point in time. This versing how

much

> current is required to engergize the coil of a give switch machine. Note:

> this is not a problem with typical stall motor switch machines such as the

> Tortoise, SwitchMaster, etc. Only with coil type switch motors, and the

> amount of current required for these does vary greatly. There are some out

> there the DS54 can not throw with out a lot of help. Trying to throw two

or

> more at the same time is almost impossible.

>

> First if one uses the internal routing of the DCS100, you can meter out

the

> switch command in a route, this allows time for the DS54 onboard CDU to

> recharge for the next motor. This is set by DCS100 OPSW #31. All that

simply

> happens is there will be a built in delay between each switch command as

the

> DCS100 sets up the route/s.

>

> Now as far as the DS54 it's self and it's own Local Routing. We can help

the

> DS54 recharge faster by using the DS54 AUX input. And this is recommended

by

> Digitrax, especially any time coil switch motor types are used, routing or

> not. A simply AC or DC applied to the AUX input of approx. 12-16V raised

the

> availible current, and recharges the CDU faster at the same time. Now as

> long as with this setup you can throw a single coil machine, read no

routes

> yet. You should have no problem with newer PECO machines by the way. Some

of

> the older styles PECO motors still required more then the DS54 could

> provide, and there are fixes for these if need be.

>

> So now if we want to use routes and still run in to trouble trying to

throw

> to many coils in a route, we can also cut the pulse time down to the bare

> min required to properly throw the turnout. But the best approach here is

> distribute your route over multiple DS54's. As an example here, as noted

> with Stall motors there is no problem and say we have a DS54 local route

all

> set up on a single DS54. To do the same with coil machines, alternate the

> turnouts between 2 or more DS54's. Now as the route sets up via DS54 Local

> route and cascade, first turnout is on DS54 1, next is on DS54 2, then

back

> to DS54 1, etc. Now each DS54 gets a recharge time between output

requests.

>

> Remember Always Have Fun and Enjoy!,

> Don Crano Akron, Oh NMRA #096211

> Moderator Digitrax User Group

> ---Links-Are-Forbidden--- Visit Model Railroading with DCC at:

> ---Links-Are-Forbidden--- Join Model Railroading with DCC Web Ring.

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "David Engle" dvengle@...>

> To: digitrax@yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 3:24 PM

> Subject: Re: [Digitrax] DS54 to control a simple yard

>

>

> > Bob,

> >

> > I have followed this question in the group and "think" that I know what

> you

> > are explaining, though I do not yet have my Chief or layout completed.

I

> am

> > using PECO turnouts and switch machines. Do I read your explanation as

> > saying that this kind of "routing" will not work using the Peco

machines?

> >

> > Dave

>

>

>

>

> To Unsubscribe From This List: mailto:digitrax-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to ---Links-Are-Forbidden--- >







----------------------------

#44617 May 9, 2002

At 06:47 PM 5/8/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Dave,Let me jump in. I quicky realilized that the 1000mdd caps in ds54s

>couldn't handle

>more than one solonided at a time. Cascading thru the Chief allows fixed

>delays to 'othrer" DS54s in ther routing chain that can double back to the

>first one ion the chain. I have A DB150 that dosn't have that

>function. After playing around wirth R/C and one-shot delays I went to

>Winlok. Also I am too old to crawl under the layout to install costly

>Tortise. I use Atlas on top even with Peco switches

Larry Noth Fork RR CO USA

1. avoid a mass of wiring to a contol panel

2; set up amost any type of routingyou want

3. Protect running a train into a traiing open switch - this requieired

block detection - I used BDL1 Sincd then have found many other DIY

solutions for block detection with fun and learning how it all works.

4, WARNING! Winlock has a fairly steep learning curve to put up CTC

diagrams that can pass on all the info but it sure beats running miles of

wire to tons of indicators and buttons. >The problem is the amount of current the onboard DS54 CDU [Capacitor

>Discharge Unit] as availible at a given point in time. This versing how much

>current is required to engergize the coil of a give switch machine. Note:

>this is not a problem with typical stall motor switch machines such as the

>Tortoise, SwitchMaster, etc. Only with coil type switch motors, and the

>amount of current required for these does vary greatly. There are some out

>there the DS54 can not throw with out a lot of help. Trying to throw two or

>more at the same time is almost impossible.

>

>First if one uses the internal routing of the DCS100, you can meter out the

>switch command in a route, this allows time for the DS54 onboard CDU to

>recharge for the next motor. This is set by DCS100 OPSW #31. All that simply

>happens is there will be a built in delay between each switch command as the

>DCS100 sets up the route/s.

>

>Now as far as the DS54 it's self and it's own Local Routing. We can help the

>DS54 recharge faster by using the DS54 AUX input. And this is recommended by

>Digitrax, especially any time coil switch motor types are used, routing or

>not. A simply AC or DC applied to the AUX input of approx. 12-16V raised the

>availible current, and recharges the CDU faster at the same time. Now as

>long as with this setup you can throw a single coil machine, read no routes

>yet. You should have no problem with newer PECO machines by the way. Some of

>the older styles PECO motors still required more then the DS54 could

>provide, and there are fixes for these if need be.

>

>So now if we want to use routes and still run in to trouble trying to throw

>to many coils in a route, we can also cut the pulse time down to the bare

>min required to properly throw the turnout. But the best approach here is

>distribute your route over multiple DS54's. As an example here, as noted

>with Stall motors there is no problem and say we have a DS54 local route all

>set up on a single DS54. To do the same with coil machines, alternate the

>turnouts between 2 or more DS54's. Now as the route sets up via DS54 Local

>route and cascade, first turnout is on DS54 1, next is on DS54 2, then back

>to DS54 1, etc. Now each DS54 gets a recharge time between output requests.

>

> Remember Always Have Fun and Enjoy!,

> Don Crano Akron, Oh NMRA #096211

> Moderator Digitrax User Group

> ---Links-Are-Forbidden--- Visit Model Railroading with DCC at:

> ---Links-Are-Forbidden--- Join Model Railroading with DCC Web Ring.

>

>----- Original Message -----

>From: "David Engle" dvengle@...>

>To: digitrax@yahoogroups.com>

>Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 3:24 PM

>Subject: Re: [Digitrax] DS54 to control a simple yard

>

>

> > Bob,

> >

> > I have followed this question in the group and "think" that I know what

>you

> > are explaining, though I do not yet have my Chief or layout completed. I

>am

> > using PECO turnouts and switch machines. Do I read your explanation as

> > saying that this kind of "routing" will not work using the Peco machines?

> >

> > Dave

>

>

>

>

>To Unsubscribe From This List: mailto:digitrax-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>

>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to ---Links-Are-Forbidden--- /







----------------------------

#44623 May 9, 2002

Hi Skip and Bob,

I think there was a minor error in your statement Skip about the DS54 not

having the capacity to drive more than

one switch at any one time. This is true if you have not wired the DS54

for auxiliary power (16 VAC). If you have

then there is plenty of power.

Just connect 16VAC to the DS54 and all will be well...

Hank

On Wed, 8 May 2002 08:07:51 -0700 (PDT) Skip Barber skip_8933@...>

writes: > Bob,

>

> One thing to note (because I have been there) The

> DS54 will not through more than one solinoid switch.

> You will have to use tortoise or switchmasters to be

> able to use route control. There is not enough

> current for several (even 2) solonoids.

>

>

> Skip in VA

>

> --- Bob Jacobsen Bob_Jacobsen@...> wrote:

> > >First, forgive me if I use the incorrect terms! I

> > have a simple 5X9

> > >layout (the Atlas Granite Gorge and Nortern) that

> > is controlled by a

> > >digitrax chief. I am thinking of getting into

> > turnout control for the

> > >yard.

> >

> > Is that plan number 28 in the Atlas book? I like

> > that one!

> >

> > >It is a very simple yard (4 tracks and hence 3

> > switches) to route

> > >trains in. I have read the DS54 manual online, and

> > although much

> > >seems complicated, it appears that it can do what I

> > want (easily is

> > >the key word!).

> > >

> > >Basically, if I want to send a train to track 1 of

> > the yard, I need

> > >the three switches set a particular way. Same for

> > the other 3 tracks.

> > >This appears to be called "local route" in DS54

> > terms. Am I on the

> > >right track here? I'd like to be able to control it

> > from the trottle

> > >as well as local push buttons. I guess I would need

> > 4 routes?

> > >

> > >As I go further, if I throw a switch controlled by

> > one DS54, but need

> > >to also throw a switch that is on a different DS54,

> > can that be done

> > >with local route? Or do I have to get into the

> > cascading route?

> >

> > Since you have a Chief, it might be better to use

> > the routes in the

> > Chief to do this. That give you some more

> > flexibility in setup, and

> > lets you assign convenient numbers to the tracks.

> >

> > I can send some details on that if you're

> > interested.

> >

> > Bob

> > --

> > --------------

> > Bob Jacobsen (Bob_Jacobsen@..., 510-486-7355,

> > fax 510-495-2957)

> >

> > To Unsubscribe From This List:

> > mailto:digitrax-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

> >

> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

> > ---Links-Are-Forbidden---

> >

> >

>

>

---------------

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>

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>

>

>

Henry P. Sousa - What-a-Guy

Sousa Software Development, Inc.

e-mail hanksousa@...

WEB www.angelfire.com/ma4/lawrenceo/sousa.htm

Tel 781-769-6202 -- Fax 781-551-5864 -- Cell 781-492-0072







----------------------------

#44625 May 9, 2002

Paul:

> My layout is so small, and I have done some very limited

> operations on a large layout, and just not sure how to start designing

> operations.

>

I would be helpful if you gave a description of your layout with some basics

like the overall style (mainline running, switching, etc.) , how many trains,

operators and industrial sites you have. A track plan would be helpful. If

you can put your track plan into the Files Section of this list, it would be

most helpful. Goto: ---Links-Are-Forbidden--- question of this nature may be good to put on the Operations/Industrial

chat list. While there are some really knowledgeable operators on this list,

"how to start" questions are always welcome. To join, send an email to:

Ry-ops-industrialSIG-subscribe@yahoogroups.com. No subject or body is

required.

You might get some ideas from the web pages I have on my layout. It is 18'' x

21' and is designed for rural switching. The URL is:

---Links-Are-Forbidden--- be happy to give you some more ideas. Email me privately at:

Shenware@...

Warmest regards,

Peter White

Digitrax List Moderator


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