Messages From ldsig

 


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#82557 Feb 23, 2010

Am looking for design plan ideas for a medium size steam/diesel transition era (early 1950's) engine terminal in a industrial area setting in the north-east USA. Terminal to occupy most of one corner in a 12 foot by 24 foot room in HO scale.

Starting from scratch. Terminal will be operations orientated to include turntable, roundhouse/machine shop, coal tower, water tower, sand house, ash pits, diesel service platform, diesel house and more.

Any and all sugestions welcome.

Have any questions, ask away.

Dick



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#82558 Feb 23, 2010

Have a look at the ongoing series in Model Railroad Hobbiest which is a free

download

---Links-Are-Forbidden--- Clogg

Cariboo Western Railway

> Am looking for design plan ideas for a medium size steam/diesel transition

> era (early 1950's) engine terminal in a industrial area setting in the

> north-east USA. Terminal to occupy most of one corner in a 12 foot by 24

> foot room in HO scale.

>

> Starting from scratch. Terminal will be operations orientated to include

> turntable, roundhouse/machine shop, coal tower, water tower, sand house,

> ash pits, diesel service platform, diesel house and more.

>

> Any and all sugestions welcome.

>

> Have any questions, ask away.

>

> Dick



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#82559 Feb 23, 2010

--- In ldsig@yahoogroups.com, "vegaman19760" wb2raj@...> wrote: >

> Am looking for design plan ideas for a medium size steam/diesel transition era (early 1950's) engine terminal in a industrial area setting in the north-east USA.

What railroad do you want it to represent? ...dave



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#82560 Feb 23, 2010

In a message dated 2/22/2010 10:51:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

ctxm@... writes:

What railroad do you want it to represent? ...dave

Hi Dave.

RR will probably be the New York Central. It will be a fictitious named

Division point to be laid out as to operate as a working terminal would.

Thanks for asking.

Dick







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#82562 Feb 23, 2010

Hi, Dick!

..

All of your stated criteria are met in Fig. 4-3 of the Kalmbach book TRACK PLANNING FOR REALISTIC OPERATION by John Armstrong... He comprehensively discusses engine service facilities and requirements...

..

Also extremely useful is Model Railroader's SPECIAL HANDBOOK SERIES Number 4, ENGINE SERVICING FACILITIES by John Armstrong... It contains an earlier version of Fig. 4-3 mentioned in the above book... This plan could be modified to suit your needs... If you don't have access to this issue of Model Railroader reprints of the article can be obtained from Kalmbach Publishing Company...

..

Good luck,

..

Gene Goser

..

.. --- On Tue, 23/2/10, vegaman19760 wb2raj@...> wrote:

From: vegaman19760 wb2raj@...>

Subject: [ldsig] LOOKING FOR DESIGN IDEAS - CORNER ENGINE TERMINAL

To: ldsig@yahoogroups.com

Date: Tuesday, 23 February, 2010, 1:19

..



Am looking for design plan ideas for a medium size steam/diesel transition era (early 1950's) engine terminal in a industrial area setting in the north-east USA. Terminal to occupy most of one corner in a 12 foot by 24 foot room in HO scale.

Starting from scratch. Terminal will be operations orientated to include turntable, roundhouse/machine shop, coal tower, water tower, sand house, ash pits, diesel service platform, diesel house and more.

Any and all sugestions welcome.

Have any questions, ask away.

Dick



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#82564 Feb 23, 2010

--- In ldsig@yahoogroups.com, "vegaman19760" wb2raj@...> wrote: > Am looking for design plan ideas for a medium size steam/diesel transition era (early 1950's) engine terminal in a industrial area setting in the north-east USA. Terminal to occupy most of one corner in a 12 foot by 24 foot room in HO scale.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Footprint? How big is "most of a corner"? Can it be 8 feet long, 12 feet long, 3 feet long? Is the benchwork 18" deep, 24" deep, 36" deep?

Tracks going through scene? Terminal inside or outside of the through tracks?

Do you want a roundhouse? How many stalls? How many engines in the ready tracks? How big of engines? 4-6-0's or 4-6-6-4's?

Dave H.







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#82572 Feb 23, 2010

Take a look at the U&D engine terminal in the files section. An engine

facility such as you describe can be fit, without compression, into

about 3' x 6'. There is a scale drawing as well as some postcard views

of the area. --- In ldsig@yahoogroups.com, "vegaman19760" wb2raj@...> wrote:

>

> Am looking for design plan ideas for a medium size steam/diesel

transition era (early 1950's) engine terminal in a industrial area

setting in the north-east USA. Terminal to occupy most of one corner in

a 12 foot by 24 foot room in HO scale.

>

> Starting from scratch. Terminal will be operations orientated to

include turntable, roundhouse/machine shop, coal tower, water tower,

sand house, ash pits, diesel service platform, diesel house and more.

>

> Any and all sugestions welcome.

>

> Have any questions, ask away.

>

> Dick

>



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#82573 Feb 23, 2010

In a message dated 2/23/2010 9:36:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

dehusman@... writes:

Footprint? How big is "most of a corner"? Can it be 8 feet long, 12 feet

long, 3 feet long? Is the benchwork 18" deep, 24" deep, 36" deep?

Tracks going through scene? Terminal inside or outside of the through

tracks?

Do you want a roundhouse? How many stalls? How many engines in the ready

tracks? How big of engines? 4-6-0's or 4-6-6-4's?

Dave H.

Good questions Dave.

Most of the corner would be up to 6 foot out from along the 90 degree

corner on the short 12 foot wall, and up to 8 foot out from along the 90 degree

corner on the long 24 foot wall. So a diagonal of 12 feet and more is

well within reason.

Benchwork may be up to 36 inches deep or more. Additional access from

underneath via removable buildings or areas can be worked out.

I would prefer the through tracks to pass on the inside of the scene

placing the engine terminal toward the outside of the through tracks. That

would allow a better view of the engine service operations. However, that

plan may require additional corner room because the engine facilities would

fit easier in a corner as opposed to through tracks around a corner.

Through tracks should not hinder the view too much so the terminal on the inside

of the through tracks would be ok. Or maybe diesel service in the corner,

then through tracks and steam service on the outside.

Six stall roundhouse with maintenance shop and a few outside service

tracks will be fine. About 4 to 6 engines on the ready track. Turntable is 130

scale feet so any size power will fit.

Thanks for your questions.

Dick







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#82574 Feb 23, 2010

In a message dated 2/23/2010 1:41:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

BurrHubbell@... writes:

Take a look at the U&D engine terminal in the files section. An engine

facility such as you describe can be fit, without compression, into

about 3' x 6'. There is a scale drawing as well as some postcard views

of the area.

Thanks.

I'll check out that file.

Dick



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#82575 Feb 23, 2010

--- In ldsig@yahoogroups.com, wb2raj@... wrote: > RR will probably be the New York Central. It will be a fictitious named

> Division point to be laid out as to operate as a working terminal would.

I'd search for some photos of typical NYC engine terminals to see how they did things then get a copy of John Armstrong's "track planning for realistic operation" to turn the NYC practices into modeling form. I could design a great SP corner roundhouse scene based on Watsonville jct but I've never been to NYC country. ...dave



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#82576 Feb 23, 2010

In a message dated 2/23/2010 6:31:55 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

eagoser@... writes:

Hi, Dick!

All of your stated criteria are met in Fig. 4-3 of the Kalmbach book TRACK

PLANNING FOR REALISTIC OPERATION by John Armstrong. He comprehensively

discusses engine service facilities and requirements.

Also extremely useful is Model Railroader's SPECIAL HANDBOOK SERIES Number

4, ENGINE SERVICING FACILITIES by John Armstrong. It contains an earlier

version of Fig. 4-3 mentioned in the above book. This plan could be

modified to suit your needs. If you don't have access to this issue of Model

Railroader reprints of the article can be obtained from Kalmbach Publishing

Company.

Good luck,

Gene Goser

Hi Gene,

I have TRACK PLANNING FOR REALISTIC OPERATION by John Armstrong. A great

resource for all. His plans are certainly a good prospect.

According to my recent call to Kalmbach Publishing Company, there are no

reprints available for SPECIAL HANDBOOK SERIES Number 4, ENGINE SERVICING

FACILITIES by John Armstrong. I do have other publications from Kalmbach as

well as other publishers to refer to.

Thanks for the input.

Dick







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#82577 Feb 23, 2010

In a message dated 2/23/2010 3:33:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

ctxm@... writes:

I'd search for some photos of typical NYC engine terminals to see how they

did things then get a copy of John Armstrong's "track planning for

realistic operation" to turn the NYC practices into modeling form. I could design

a great SP corner roundhouse scene based on Watsonville jct but I've never

been to NYC country. ...dave

Hi Dave,

I do have TRACK PLANNING FOR REALISTIC OPERATION by John Armstrong. It is

a great resource for all. His plans are certainly a good idea to follow.

For what I have been able to find, the NYC engine facilities were very

different from one another. Many were at freight yards of varying

configurations, some even with ramp type coaling facilities. If there was a typical

NYC engine service facility I am not aware of it. I have seen a book called

NYC TRACKSIDE but that did not have what I was looking for.

Thanks for you input.

Dick



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#82578 Feb 23, 2010

A quick Google search turns up this ideal location for a corner. However, I

question putting a plan such as this in a corner os it will be difficuly to

access for maintenance: -

---Links-Are-Forbidden--- searching Google for "roundhouse track plans" or "enginehouse track

plans" etc, etc..

Roger T.

See the G.E.R. at: -

---Links-Are-Forbidden--- m



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#82579 Feb 23, 2010

--- In ldsig@yahoogroups.com, wb2raj@... wrote: > For what I have been able to find, the NYC engine facilities were very

> different from one another. Many were at freight yards of varying

> configurations, some even with ramp type coaling facilities. If there was a typical

> NYC engine service facility I am not aware of it.

Well that's actually a good thing cause now you can pick out the one that appeals to you the most and adapt it's features to your space? ...dave







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#82581 Feb 23, 2010

take a look at my track plan. Use could use it as a start

" ---Links-Are-Forbidden--- is modeled after the SP facilities in San Luis Obispo in 1949. No coal but you could add that.

Paul Deis

Chief Engineer, D&P Mountain Railroad

---Links-Are-Forbidden--- .



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#82585 Feb 24, 2010

In a message dated 2/23/2010 6:12:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

pdeis@... writes:

take a look at my track plan. Use could use it as a start

"_ ---Links-Are-Forbidden---

( ---Links-Are-Forbidden--- "

it is modeled after the SP facilities in San Luis Obispo in 1949. No coal

but you could add that.

Paul Deis

Chief Engineer, D&P Mountain Railroad

Hi Paul.

Great web site.

I also looked at your last track plan.

Thanks.

Dick



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#82586 Feb 24, 2010

In a message dated 2/23/2010 5:04:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

rogertra@... writes:

A quick Google search turns up this ideal location for a corner. However,

I

question putting a plan such as this in a corner os it will be difficuly

to

access for maintenance: -

_ ---Links-Are-Forbidden---

( ---Links-Are-Forbidden---

Try searching Google for "roundhouse track plans" or "enginehouse track

plans" etc, etc..

Hi Roger,

I agree that reach and maintenance may be a problem in that web link plan.

Placement of other services for a division facility would also be a

concern.

I did do a roundhouse and enginehouse search and looked at quite a few

links. But nothing caught my fancy.

Thanks for your input.

Dick



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#82587 Feb 24, 2010

Hi Roger,

>

> I agree that reach and maintenance may be a problem in that web link

> plan.

> Placement of other services for a division facility would also be a

> concern.

>

> I did do a roundhouse and enginehouse search and looked at quite a few

> links. But nothing caught my fancy.

>

> Thanks for your input.

Dick.

The other solution is to do what I did which was to build the roundhouse

complex at the front of the corner and put the running lines behind the

roundhouse, towards the back of the scene. This serves three functions.

One, it puts your locos up front where they can be admired.

Two, it makes access to the roundhouse easier.

Three, having the running lines behind the roundhouse is less of a

maintenance hassle than putting the roundhouse there.



Roger T.

See the G.E.R. at: -

---Links-Are-Forbidden--- m







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#82588 Feb 24, 2010

In a message dated 2/23/2010 8:25:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

rogertra@... writes:

Dick.

The other solution is to do what I did which was to build the roundhouse

complex at the front of the corner and put the running lines behind the

roundhouse, towards the back of the scene. This serves three functions.

One, it puts your locos up front where they can be admired.

Two, it makes access to the roundhouse easier.

Three, having the running lines behind the roundhouse is less of a

maintenance hassle than putting the roundhouse there.

Roger T.

See the G.E.R. at: -

_ ---Links-Are-Forbidden---

( ---Links-Are-Forbidden---

Hi Roger,

Great web site and nice track plan.

I will certainly consider an in front roundhouse.

Thanks for your input.

Dick



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#82592 Feb 24, 2010

Dick,

You got a lot of responses, but nobody mentioned Marty McGuirk's "The Model Railroader's Guide to LOCOMOTIVE Servicing Terminals." It's another Kalmback 80-pager devoted to diesel and steam servicing facilities. There are probably a half dozen diagrams for you. Get it off Amazon.

I'm doing a double deck [16" separation] with most of the shelves running 24" deep. The upper facility uses a Walther's 130' turntable and the lower uses a 105' Diamond scale.

The Walthers is remote control, the yard tracks pass in front, roundhouse runs into the rear wall. It's at a corner that puts the center of the turntable at 27" from the edge with only a couple of functioning roundhouse stalls, the rest are dummies.. [Picture two 24" shelves coming together, with a plywood triangle added to increase depth for the roundhouse and turntable.]

The lower turntable represents that in the Little Ferry yards in New Jersey. It's a strong arm powered and close to the edge of the 24" shelf. Tracks run behind, but no roundhouse. The next 'module' is the fueling facility for steam and diesel, also along a 24" wide shelf on wheels!

I'm modeling a 'fake' NYC affiliate. See MR Oct 06. Good luck.

Bernie Halloran







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#82595 Feb 25, 2010

In a message dated 2/24/2010 2:59:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

bfhalloran@... writes:

Dick,

You got a lot of responses, but nobody mentioned Marty McGuirk's "The

Model Railroader's Guide to LOCOMOTIVE Servicing Terminals." It's another

Kalmback 80-pager devoted to diesel and steam servicing facilities. There are

probably a half dozen diagrams for you. Get it off Amazon.

I'm modeling a 'fake' NYC affiliate. See MR Oct 06. Good luck.

Bernie Halloran

Hi Bernie,

I do in fact have Marty McGuirk's book.

Two more books that I have for actual prototype reference are STEAM

LOCOMOTIVE COALING STATIONS AND DIESEL LOCOMOTIVE FUELING FACILITIES, as well as

STEAM AND DIESEL LOCOMOTIVE TERMINALS AND SERVICE FACILITIES, both by

Thomas W Dixon Jr. These are a must for anyone looking for inside, outside,

above ground and under ground detailed pictures and drawings of steam and

diesel engine terminal facilities.

Over time I have put together a Division size terminal design in a

PENINSULA SETTING. Unfortunately it is not to scale. I know all the proper track

spacing, spacing between buildings and all facilities and building foot

print sizes. I need to find someone with a good cad program that would be

willing to put my plan into a scale type drawing. That will give me a better

idea on how I might transform it into a corner design. There is no time

pressure as I have other hobbies and projects to attend to. Anyone

interested can contact me off list.

Right now I have two weeks to get the motor home ready and travel from

here in the cold Northeast down to warm Florida to do some drag race crewing

for friends at the NHRA GATOR NATIONALS in Gainesville, FL in March. Will

be back in April when the weather gets warmer.

Thanks for your input and best wishes on your layout.

Dick

Clarence, NY







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#82597 Feb 27, 2010

On Feb 24, 2010, at 11:43 AM, BF halloran wrote: > Dick,

> You got a lot of responses, but nobody mentioned Marty McGuirk's

> "The Model Railroader's Guide to LOCOMOTIVE Servicing Terminals."

> It's another Kalmback 80-pager devoted to diesel and steam

> servicing facilities. There are probably a half dozen diagrams for

> you. Get it off Amazon.

Bookfinder.com lists a pile of them starting at $15, from a variety of

sources. The Irish Times called the site the Google of books.

--

Nolan Hinshaw, native Californian since 1944

"[Vista is] about as stable as a one-legged elephant on a skateboard"

C. Daniels


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